not getting done because the bill is not out of committee. when harry reid says, when you talk about the ruling from the appellate court it was based on the imperial presidency with a rule created by harry reid. watery getting in america? 16 trillion in debt and unfunded liabilities over the next 75 years. and for the students, $823,000 of debt. how do we pale that off. >> and did you really gets the bush tax cuts? >> yes. >> a lot of people railed

against bush and also against obamacare that is how they got the majority in the 2010 election. >> it's the economy. liz: david and gains. david: cheryl casone, good to have you here. thank you so much. melissa: i am melissa francis and here's what is "money" tonight. it could be the next california. how close is the breaking point and can the taxman save it? the power panel breaks it down. plus, he's in what is going on in salt lake city lately? a group of doctors declared a health emergency warning premature birth and miscarriag miscarriages.

the group's leader joins us with the diagnosis. and unusual hand drawn top nba recruits three high-stakes poker tournament. not sure they make great executives. the man behind the plan joins us exclusively to lay out his cards. even when they say this not, it is all about money. so tonight we start with a huge hit to illinois, the critic has been knocked down from an aide to an a- from credit rating agency. now tied with illinois the lowest rating in the country. is our country going down the drain one state at a time, in what state is next? partner along with charles payne

payne. i think that is abe lincoln. abe lincoln is here with us. i thought it would be jonathan hoenig. and fox news contributor. i was going to start with charles, but there is no way i can ignore abe lincoln. are you begging for money? >> i am panhandling, melissa. if i was dead, i would be turning over in my grav this is a crisis erupting. because of the progressive philosophy and the politicians that have gotten ourselves into this unfunded pension liability. it has been ignored for years, that is why the problem has grown so big. this will mean slower growth and higher borrowing costs.

melissa: i was looking at the beard in the hat and the whole thing. charles, did yo do you understad anything he said? to me it sounded like he was dead right. charles: that is another one for your highlight reel. they are making the situation worse. the state employees by the fifth highest in the country. here is the thing, they will do an offering on wednesday. cost $95 million. interest rates going through the roof. he started hauling off saying will illinois be the next california? i think they're worse. a big agricultural business. illinois has nothing to put themselves in a position like a big socialist welfare states in europe or they can't find a way out of it. everything they've done so far has just made it worse.

this is a very scary situation. melissa: the downside is the pension is only funded by 35% and they consider a healthy state funded by 80%, but the plus side if they have an unlimited ability to raise taxes. it was really written in there. they can go ahead and tax away to solve the problem. has that worked for california? a limited ability to solve this pension problem. what do you think? >> in california we are very excited to not be the worst anymore. running around the state capital building we are 49. that is at least good news for us. raising taxes now that the marginal tax ra is topping up 13.3% for the richest californians there: accountants

in droves finding ways to move their money and we are looking at unfunded pension liability maybe not as bad off, but $181 billion? melissa: i love you, jonathan, but he was so entertaining. going on to say they believe legislative consensus will be difficult to achieve given the poor track record of the past two years. in other words, may have the ability to tax until kingdom come but i don't think they will reform the pension, which they raised taxes in the past and they didn't spend the money to fix the problem. they just spend it. jonathan: you hit the nail on the head. there is corporate taxes and the net result has been a mass exodus of notnly companies but also individuals. they believe in the state an average of one every 10 minutes with a direct result of the

taxes and regulations of course higher taxes you expect to fix the problem inevitably shoot yourself in the foot even more. melissa: when is the come to jesus moment that they said they're in a say oh, no, we have really screwed this up, we cannot pay our bills. they borrow no more money? they don't care, their politicians only in office for so long. charles: or they cooked the books and balance the budget. the people who are staying there, there is a malaise the number one climate. it goes beyond economics, it goes to malaise it hurts your citizens to the point they have really given up. you have walking zombies that plays everybody is dependent on

government and the fact of the matter is it is like what we have seen in greece. it goes all the way to the end, what are the worst case scenario is read melissa: is that what it's like in california? >> california will be filled with very rich people, very poor people and gernment workers and that is pretty much all that will be hanging around the way it goes. melissa: jonathan, i will give you the last word. that is what you have to look forward to. >> we can take your medicine now nationally and on a state-by-state basis or just wait and evade the problem until it blows up in your face. whether this made now or later. melissa: thanks to everyone. it was history day at my son's school. he was benjamin franklin.

he went right along with a the custom theme, thanks very much. a terrifying warning that could handicap the local community. pollution is more than three times the limit set at the epa. now there are calls to curb industrial activity and ban would burn. the group say these dangerous levels could cause pregnant women to miscarry or give birth prematurely. with now is the president and founder of that group read thank you for coming on. this sounds very serious. are you being alarmist or is it really this serious? >> i think for you to understand what the medical community really thinks about this it is helpful to know with very little effort we got basically over 120 physicians to sign a letter to the governor asking him to declare our air pollution circumstance. physicians from virtually every kind of specialty, gynecologist,

pediatricians, surgeon, anesthesiologist, and so it does really represent the opinion of the medical community. melissa: is there some sort of funding that goes along with that, what level of action, what happens with the emergency? >> that is exactly why we took the initiative we did was because there was no action being taken. in our opinion we thought our political leaders needed to know there is a real serious public consequences which we are experiencing. the fact it didn't seem to be any public policy response to that is what really drove our initiative. melissa: what would you like to see them do? it is caused by temperature inversion which means very cold air in salt lake city in a typical day 18 degrees, and park

city is warmer at 46 degrees create a lid on top of the air that is in salt lake city and traps the air and whatever pollution going on as well. lots of manufacturing going on and employs a lot of people, what is it you would like to see the government do? >> we think there are a lot of things they can do that they are not currently doing. if you look at the sources of air pollution where most of the people in utah live between 50 and 60% of the problem of vehicle emissions from the cars. we have to address that first because that is the biggest source of the problem. one of the ways we should be able to do that is say let's do it if we can to encourage the use of our mass transit system to get people out of their car. our recommendation asks the legislature provide enough money for us to offer you the reduced fare or free mass transit during this inversion season when the

pollution can really get oppressive. and then there is something in addition to that which is very easy to do, decrease freeway speed limits to 55. the department of energy has concluded the average vehicle fuel efficiency improves about 22% when the speeds dropped from 75 to 55 and everybody usually draws about 75, so right there painlessly and without costing anybody any money. melissa: are you advocating some businesses shut down, for example calls come in like utah, the other manufacturing base in the area, it is controversial because it employs about 120,000 people in the area, would you like them to shut down, are you part of that group? >> no. we are not advocating anybody lose their job. if our state government actually implanted a recommendation, it

would probably add employment to the state, not subtracted. one of the consequences of the air pollution it has is really economic repercussions when it is broadcast throughout the world salt lake city has a worse air pollution in the country, that has a profound economic liability to it. it is a bad message to send to other states and the rest of the world. melissa: you are right about that. now you are getting so much attention, negative for the reason you just mentioned but maybe it will force people to wake up and deal with the problem. we appreciate your time. let's get to the market moment, the bulls took a bit of a breather, stronger than expected durable goods order failing to give stocks a boost. breaking in a day losing streak both closing down slightly. next, small businesses may finally be getting their groove

back. ceos from around the country to give the inside scoop on what to expect in this economy, plus top mba recruits, an exclusive interview on how they're using a high-stakes poker tournament to fill the corner office. more "money" and poker straight ahead. officemax knows... ...tax time can be...well...taxing. so right now we'll give you... ...$10 off any turbo tax deluxe level software or higher! find thousands of big deals now... ...at officemax.

♪ melissa: small business owners breathing a sigh of relief these days. small business index shows they are more optimistic now compared to last november. in part because the nerve-racking dexter negotiations are in the rearview mirror. what kind of hiring expansion might be seeing in the near future is our small-business roundtable. ceo of working solutions. welcome back the show, everyone. i read this survey this morning and immediately my wisdom came out. skepticism i should say. hard for me to say you are

clicking her heels, everything is going great. you feel really optimistic? >> i think there is natural optimism after the fiscal cliff negotiations but don't think it is a drastic improvement from where it was a few months ago by any stretch of the imagination. >> the past four weeks have been great to have a feeling a coue feel it again. they have not completed the entire process. most these things have been basically extended for this year. many of those tax initiatives that come back and hurt us as a small business and we're just hoping everybody the right decision once they get back into the swing of things. cheryl: they actually did not do anything really. they just put off the debt ceiling problems down the road. sequestration still happening on march 1, that hasn't gone

anywhere, yet this study says 57% of small business owners expect the financial situation to be buried to so much good. both are the same number of jobs at their company makes your year overall as there were last year was to me is very optimistic. but they just happen to not be firing anyone. if that optimism? >> what is happening, you technically feel better, but you still have eye problems. optimism is not here. a look at the projections and say we can make this happen. we're reminded we have to keep for a few weeks longer. melissa: you have to have a lot of courage, and perhaps things have been tough for so long it is kind of the new normal, the

new year, maybe they are marginally better or a lot better, i don't know. am i getting anywhere? >> you're right, have to be optimistic optimism. melissa: talking to one of the fundamental problems which is people being overeducated for the job they have. almost everybody has a bachelor's degree of some type, you can get them online, you end up with kind of student debt and the survey shows 50% of taxi drivers for example have a bachelors degree. 25% of people working in retail sales have a bachelors degree. do we have a problem in this country where people are overeducated for the jobs that are available but not educated for the jobs that are open?

>> we have had this problem probably for the last two to three 24 or five years where people are running now the cost of a college education is worth it in the long run because the jobs that are available are not the middle-market job. every highly professional jobs or the hourly jobs. we run call centers and folks taking phone calls, it is certainly not what they probably intended to do. melissa: every job is a great job, more power to you. this entire affair settled with the kind of college debt you thought would bring with it a higher paying job and you now can afford to make student loan payments, it is not a great thing. are you hiring right now? are you looking for folks? >> quite frankly kind of candidates i received just aren't qualified. they have the wrong types of

degrees. melissa: give us an example. >> if you have computer science, computer engineering, we will hire you in a split second. tons of companies we can literally start with six-figure salary out of the gate if you have web development experience, design experience, highly technical degrees are very valuable. psychology or economics are not really going very fast. melissa: i have an economics degree. now i am rethinking the decision to let my son go to a technology camp. thank you for coming on. next, how far would you go to gamble on a job? high-stakes poker tournament to find new executives, but does knowing when to hold them mean you are the best fit for the corner office?

we will talk exclusively to the director behind it all. plus no news isn't good news for boeing. still no definitive answer to what is behind the dreamliner disasters. can you ever have too much "money"?

melissa: business students scoring a job in vegas, these entertainment held a three-day texas hold them tournament to attract top recruits. it isn't the first time. last year five campus walkway with full-time jobs at the company. not talk about dealing cards. it displayed on how it all plays out is these entertainment corporate director of talent. welcome to the show.

what yowould you they could leay watching them play texas hold them? >> we actually see a lot of correlation between these guys who can come in and show their skills at the poker table fro, strong poker skills correlate into a great business executive, they're very smart, analytical, great with numbers, they're very focused at the task at hand. and they're very social read they c get along with their competitors. melissa: spare not degenerate gamblers? >> go to the morgue positive attributes for those who can successfully play poker. >>melissa: you fluent people frm harvard business school. they buy into the tournament for

$85,225. of course if they win, they win money but you also had 21 mba trainee program paying $16,000. this is a real thing for you guys, a real way for you to to recruit people. is anyone else doing this? >> not that we are aware of. we get the opportunity to thewe can leverage the great brd and unique as our business represents to these entities are it is a very competitive marketplace. we're competing against wall street firms or big cpc firms, and they're going after the same talent we are. we need to be creative in be able to showcase the uniqueness of our industry and caesars entertainment, and we think the poker tournament is accredited that. melissa: this is a serious question. i have friends from harvard that love to play texas : who are very serious about it. smart can agree with math. they also tend to have problems with the eviction.

this is a certain type of personality. do you worry about this at all? are there other screening methods that come in from the side. it just seems like this could backfire. >> sure. we are not worried about it, and, actually, you don't have to play poker in order to get an interview and participate in the event. again majority of the people do, and it's fun. it's a casual game. there are states and 91. no, we are not worried about it. we look at those skills that i described as being more important here. melissa: some of those are you like to look for people that are not afraid of risk. is that one of the things that you see, theare willing to gamble smartly, soda speak. that's one of the upside, right? >> caucus that it risk. absolutely. yes. melissa: math skills. go through again what you think it is the meet and greet workers >> typically a strong polk repair, very analytical in their

approach to the game, strategic. they take calculated risks. able to make decisions quickly at the table and do so in a manner that is social and competitive, yet still able to socialize. these guys spend 5-6 hours at the poker table. they're very tenacious and driven to succeed. we like that. melissa: and you should be comfortable in the environment. a very interesting stuff. thank you for coming on. >> absolutely. thank you for having me. melissa: next up, boeing is baffled by the ion battery. they may not be the root of the massive problems of the dream liner. could this have a bigger impact on the economy? have you notice stores in your area are charging you just to use your credit card? businesses in 40 states canal had customers with checkout fees. we will tell you why and what

you can do and what to look for. piles of "money" coming up. ♪ stay top of mind with customers? from deals that bring them in with an offer... to social media promotions that turn fans into customers... to events that engage and create buzz... to e-mails that keep loyal customers coming back, our easy-to-use tools will keep you in front of your customers. see what's right for you at constantcontact.com/try.

♪ melissa: still no news from boeing on what exactly is causing all the problems that have grounded the entire fleet of streamliners. at first the lithium ion batteries were being break to

the blame for starting fires. now experts are not so sure. the transport minister of japan says his safety inspector has not found anything, and now we're hearing reports that japan eased its safety standards ahead of the dream liner lunch in order to make it easier for japanese manufacturers to make parts for the plane peter is an aviation expert and former managing director of the ntsb. great to have the back of the show. in this case, no news is bad news really because it means we are no closer to figuring a what the problem is. so they're no closer to getting a split back in the air, right? >> you're absolutely correct. the announcement this morning from the transport ministry in japan was bad news. as was the press conference on friday by the ntsb where the chairman of the ntsb, did the herdsman's said, this was a safety flight issue. that is a very tough language

and a phrase that is used that means that had the plane been in the air this could have caused some real problems, and the plan will not go back and tell they have cut this off completely. melissa: what about these reports we're hearing now that japan eased safety standards in order -- this seems like you would guess that it was in order to be a manufacturer of this plan or make it easier to get that contract in the country. what you make of that? >> there have been broader questions raised about the whole certification of this aircraft. when this aircraft started to be reviewed by the faa and other organizations, it was in a more cooperative environment. the faa used designated engineers which means those our engineers to actually work for boeing to help certify certain parts of the aircraft. so there is going to be a review of the certification process. if the ntsb determines that there was a broader problem with

the issue of these batteries. melissa: best of all the evidence using, what you think is wrong? >> well, boy, i was hoping that it was going to be a faulty battery. if it is not faulty battery commander have to say, the ntsb has not confirmed that jpanese diagnosis to my boy, then they have a bigger problem and will have to look carefully at enhancing the protection of the plane from these batteries, perhaps a new cooling system, perhaps a suppression system. certainly commend greater barriers around the battery. so i think this is going to be a handful for boeing. melissa: and boeing is going to bear the brunt of this. as it turns out, the third party supplier is to blame for what happened, it is boeing have recourse to the go back and sue them and get damages? >> well, you would think that their blood, but remember, this plane has put together with a vast number of outside suppliers

part of the unspoken agreement was if there were going to use japanese suppliers for some major components of this aircraft in japanese airlines were going to be the launch customer. while that violates that it wto rules come everyone knows that that is where was that it. melissa: real quick before we go, you know, in the first couple of days everyone said this is growing pains, normal, what happens when your roll out of the giant plane. it has got more serious, hasn't it? >> it has command if it is now resolved quickly to in the next ten days to two weeks, i think boeing is looking in a real problem. melissa: thank you for coming on. we'll have you back soon. time for the fuel gauge report. cruiser scrambling to clean up an oil spill and the mississippi river. to oil barges slammed into a raroad bridge near vicksburg, mississippi, ad 80,000-gallon tank on one of the barges has been leaking.

it is still unclear how much oil has entered the river or what caused the crash. refining and 70,000 barrels of crude per day, not small. the move completes the exit from the refining industry. futures of our bought gasoline, the closure is expected to aggregate already hiked gas supplies. temperatures finallyrising across the country. milder weather forecasts have hammered natural gas futures today. they posted their biggest decline in thre months, falling for their fifth straight session. all right. coming up, brace yourself at the checkout counter. you could now be on the hook for jacked up credit-card fees. will this change the way you shop? because at the end of the day, it is all about "money." ♪ officemax knows...

...tax time can be...well...taxing. so right now we'll give you... ...$10 off any turbo tax deluxe level software or higher! find thousands of big deals now... ...at officemax.

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ten states have laws prohibiting it. it could be as high as 4%. this could have a big impact on where people shop and possibly which businesses they stay afloat. this with the economy needs right now. here to break it down is john ulzheimer, president of consumer education is more credit. thank you for joining us. i just want to make sure i understand, this is somewhere between one and 4% fees that normally when you swipe your credit-card it is the margin that has to pay that to the credit-card issuer for the privilege of using a credit card, and a lot of times when you're in a taxi and they try to encourage you to use cash or other places is because they don't want to pay the fee. some balance the telling you used as they pass it on to you. is that right? >> this is the key theme, and merchants are still going to be charged that 1-4% interchange as white feet, but now in many instances they will be able the subsidize the cost of the fee by just turning around and charging

the consumer when they sweat a certain credit card and uncertain states. melissa: there are rules around this. ten states cannot do this. new york is one of them. i'm sure we have a list of the of the once. they also have to -- it's like magic. there is. if you're lucky enough to be in the estate, you're safe, you should still watch. if you're in the other states, do they have to post it? >> absolutely. this has to be over disclosure. they cannot stick to sign up and said this is our disclosure. they have to let you know before you charge, and this also applies and is a good topic. it applies to online purchases. i'm in georgia, subject to the fees. if i go online to buy something, i don't know whether or not will be charged until checkout because then the merchant will know where i live and what form of payment of going to use as far as a credit card goes and then there will no -- then they have to disclose that there is a fee in but the amount will be. melissa: so at the checkout.

melissa: that's exactly right. melissa: i understand, this all comes from that seven 1/4 billion soap -- seven 1/4 billion dollars settlement that the banks and credit-card companies made that was supposed the -- the way everyone in washington put it forward, they had really struck a blow to credit card companies into the big banks, and it was going to be great for the consumers, but i never heard about this when a settlement was settled. >> you know what's interesting, all the parties involved in the settlement, none of them seem to be happy about it. every singleerson is complaining about this. consumers are complaining, merchants are complaining, card networks of combining. and wondering why in the world they agreed. the lawyers are happy because they get their fees, but this is voluntary, first off. this is not a mandatory fee. so, really, it is a twist by retailers that want to choose. melissa: to you think will opt out? that is a great point.

it really hurts mom-and-pop because you can see stores like walmart or target saying, we aren't going to do this. can shop with us, but the mom-and-pop who is maybe closer to the margin does charges because they feel like they need the money in people's up they're last. hootie uc charging and not? >> check this out. you're going to love this. national chains, it appears that the national chains are not going to be allowed to charge this feat. here's why. there is language in the settlement as says that if you charge the fee in one state you have to in every state. because national chains also did business in the ten states where the fee is a legal then they cannot choose to charge a fee in georgia because they can charge a fee in california. looks like the national change will even be a line up to fallout. it is going to come as you said, fall right smack down on the shoulders of the mom-and-pop stores and local chains commandos of the folks that we do business with, not because the prices, but we like them.

they have a choice. the 110 as with an additional 1-4% of the product, it looks like it will be allowed. melissa: american express not part of the settlement. that was a good tip. braniff time. thank you for coming on. we appreciate the information. melissa: thanks. melissa: will you stop -- shop stores that charge a fee for using your credit card? we get a lot of no way, some of you point out that it's fair because this to pay cash and acting charge less for not using a credit card. we want to hear from more of you. like us on facebook. or follow me on twitter. a okay. the day after the super bowl sachs. tired, sick after eating a whole bag of doritos and freedoms. you might even be a little runover. you definitely don't want to go to work. the white house technician of to change all that.

could super bowl monday be the nextational holiday? details coming up. you can never have too much "money." ♪

melissa: it's time for a little

fun with "spare change." we have our very own ashley webster. do you know that annoying feeling being stuck on hold and trying to get hold of someone? according to a new study, he spends an average of 43 days of your life on hold. >> i already know this because i am a customer of time warner cable. [laughter] melissa: that was o far this year, right? [laughter] >> to use to push zero because that was a quick way to get around the whole automated system. airlines are the worst followed by banks. i have had to deal with some things recently. melissa: cable providers are really the worst ones. we had time warner cable and we talked rid of it for that

reason. don't forget you have to call them for anything. >> i feel like a age every time i get on the phone with them. melissa: in the super bowl spirit, many people find themselves a little bit intoxicated. now the day after the super bowl has been asked to be declared a holiday by the white house. super bowl monday. what do you think? we could start a twitter campaign. >> this is who should start a campaign as the retailers. because consumers spend almost $13 billion for super bowl. he spent money on food and decorations and other furniture. melissa: i spent about a thousand dollars on fritos for seven layer deb.

[laughter] no, i'm just kidding. what do you think? should we have a super bowl holiday? remapped well come on european so i am okay with any holiday -- just kidding. >> there to be a lot of work that is not had on that monday. [talking over each other] [talking over each other] melissa: okay, the whole beyonée listening thing. senator chuck schumer who hosted and organized most of the festivities that he has yet to receive a call from the on-site apologizing for her performance. does he really expect her to call? i don't know why he expects an apology. >> who cares? is a difficult song to the best

of times and maybe she wasn't in the best that day. and then the marine band -- do they actually play? melissa: they kind of blamed her and said she said we are not doing a live performance. >> i'm so glad that senator schumer has obviously the most important thing on his mind. forget about the 16 filion llars in debt. melissa: as a politician he's really worried about people being phony. so that makes a lot of sense as well. next up, take a look at this fantastic resume. we know how hard it is to try and stand up, but have you ever seen anything as creative as this? he says there is only one lasting stock, you have to get

it now. i think it's cute. >> this is the first time we have heard about this. melissa: our staff was very much mocking him and saying what a dork he is. they really hung him out here to drive. >> what he wants is attention. >> exactly. >> it is going to garner him a job, more power to him. melissa: we had a tech ceo that said if anybody has any computer programming experience at all, he's desperate to hire them. so maybe he could have a job with them. social media is everywhere. the one place it is not wanted is a dark and quiet leader. theater. well, that's about to change. the providence performing arts center is allotting seats for customers to tweet by the performance during the performance. they are called tweet. i